Episode Two Transcript
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Chuck Rocha:
When I think about 2020, a few things come to mind: the COVID 19 pandemic, Black Lives Matter protests, and a major presidential election, not to mention the ongoing crisis at the U.S. Mexican border only got worse. There was a lot going on, but it was so clear that all the things were connected and they weren't happening in isolation. And they're still happening today. There were plenty of folks who brought light to these issues, but also talked about actual solutions on how we could do better as a country. These issues also took front and center at the presidential debates.
TV Narrator:
2020 is heating up. 10 democratic candidates debated for three hours in Houston, taking on issues, including healthcare and immigration.
Chuck Rocha:
I worked as a senior advisor for Senator Bernie Sanders' campaign, but I wasn't the only one having tough conversations about race, immigration, public safety, and mental health on a campaign trail. Jonathan Jayes-Green was doing the exact same thing as the Latinx Outreach Director for Senator Elizabeth Warren's team. And it's something that Jonathan has been doing for a long time. Back in 2016, they started UndocuBlack Network, a collective of undocumented black people organizing to build power and have access to more resources.
This work is personal for Jonathan, who's undocumented and unafraid. They're queer, they're trans, they're Afro-Latinx. They are all of these things. People often say that the United States is a country made up of immigrants. And we often only talk about immigration as a Mexican issue, but what 2020 made clear and what we continue to see as our Haitian sisters and siblings are being violated and turned away as they look for safety, we know that immigration is an issue that affects all of us and it touches every part of our society. And that's why I loved talking to Jonathan so much. Now they're the Vice President of Programs at the Marguerite Casey Foundation. So we got a chance to talk about their work in philanthropy and also the journey to get there. So let's get into this, my interview with Jonathan Jayes-Green.
Talk to us, Jonathan about Panama. People always think of immigrants as being Mexicans who come across the border and about Mexico and all the culture in Mexico. What do you remember about Panama?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
When I think about Panama and being a kid back there, a couple of things really resonate. One is a really strong sense of family. My mom grew up with seven sisters, so we had a really big family, so all the cousins, all the parties, the birthdays, the holidays, all of the things, just remember feeling really surrounded by community in that way. That's one thing to come up too, a really deep love and appreciation for beaches and rivers. When my grandparents still to this day live in Nombre De Dios, which is one of the coastal areas of Panama where a lot of black folks settled.
In the beginning, maybe not being happy about spending time with my grandparents, but then eventually being really happy about getting to spend time on the rivers and on the beaches and getting to eat my delicious grandmother's food. If I close my eyes, I could smell the coconut rice, the delicious meat that my grandmother seasoned, the potato salad, the fried plantain on a Sunday afternoon where the whole family gathers at my grandmother's house. Those are the memories that come to mind when I think about my childhood in Panama.
Chuck Rocha:
Jumping forward a little bit, you were 13 when you and your family move from Panama. You moved move to Maryland of all places. And you ain't in LA, you ain't in Dallas or in New York, you're in Silver Springs, Maryland. What was that experience like?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
I just remember being just really confused. I moved in December, which meant that the really thin jacket that I thought was going to keep me safe did not. As I arrived at Dulles Airport and it is snowing, and I'm like, "What is happening?" And for me, and for our story, part of how we ended up in Silver Spring was because my uncle, who was serving in the US army, was about to be the deployed to Afghanistan for a year. And he had asked his brother, my dad, to come support him, take care of his belongings while he was away. And it was a really odd thing, because one second, my mom was like, Yeah, I'll send, her husband and my dad to go to the US and support my uncle, this next second, all of us were in Silver Spring and all of us were going to live here. So I just remember being like lots has happened really fast. I don't really understand what's happening, but my parents are here, so I guess I'm okay.
Chuck Rocha:
As you settle in this community, tell me, for people who may not know what Silver Spring, Maryland looks like, what did the community look like around you?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
I love Silver Spring so much because it is such diverse place of racial, ethnic, religious, income, everything, everywhere you can think of, it's there in Silver Spring. And sort of living there, going to middle school, Sligo Middle School, all it was is other people of color. There isn't a really large Panamanian community really anywhere in the states. The bigger clusters are New York and Atlanta. So for me, I think sort of coming to this community, sort of seeing lots of newness and trying to process it, but also trying to figure out, so how do I fit into all of this, given that there isn't an established Panamanian community?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
And I think, as some folks might know, the DC area is one of the top two places where Central Americans, and Salvadorians in particular, live, it is luckily a very Central American heavy community. So I feel like I was able to find community eventually through the broader community, but in so many ways, and I think this actually is part of the broader story of me, is that I've had to both create and define what community looks like for myself.
Chuck Rocha:
That is powerful. And I think that is so true. So today, you identify as Afro-Panamanian, Afro-Latinx, but growing up, how did your family identify? How did they talk about race?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
Yeah, it's so complicated. My parents always had a real big pride being Panamanian, right? To me, now I understand and I have a context of knowing that I see Panama a black nation, right? Thinking about the influx of Caribbean and Afro-Caribbean folks to Panama historically, including that of my grandparents. I think of Panama as a black nation. When I was younger, my parents didn't have that same analysis. I think they were just really proud to be Panamanian, sort of learning and adjusting to dismantle broader Latinidad, that was sort of offered a time and trying to wrestle with what it means and how we fit in it. I, at times, wish that we had talked about race in much sharper terms as a kid versus having to discover it and make sense of it on my own, mostly because I was born and grew in Colón, which is one of the provinces of Panama. That's where most of the black people landed when they migrated to Panama and that that's where we live.
And in many ways, that province suffers from many of the things that is associated and the ways in which structural racism shows up in black cities, black communities here in the states and abroad. So the question of underfunding public institutions, roads, healthcare systems that are failing, the way in which the corporations have a hold on our economy. I mean, it's like a textbook example of what happens to black people in regions. In some sense, to me, it's like I cannot separate that from being Panamanian. To be Panamanian, to me, is to be black, to be from Colón, to eat our food, to dance our dances. But I think to be able to arrive at this analysis, it's been like a year's long process of trying, researching, talking to elders. So I think that's what my processes look like.
Chuck Rocha:
Well, you have been such a steadfast advocate for all things immigration and for a lot of people, in my opinion, who have not been spoken about like Afro-Latinos, Latinx, queer communities, all of the things that you have been not only a leader, but sometimes the only in those spaces. I see that, I've seen your work, and I see you in those places. I'm curious because everybody is so different. When did that light go off for you when you realized that I needed to do something? Obviously, the way that you said you had to discover on your own, your own immigration. You wish you had heard sharper terms. For young activists out there, how did you discover that? And what story could you tell that would help them, but when the light went off, when you realized you needed to be active in this space?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
As I'm thinking about my journey and the ways in which I've been really privileged to be able to contribute our broader fight for justice, what I think about is how oftentimes, it didn't feel like a choice. I think a lot of the work that I've done around immigration, around racial justice, around queer liberation has been either deeply disappointed, to be kind, or disgusted and upset and angry on the other end at the fact that our communities, my very own communities have oftentimes disappointed me and failed to meet the mark. So when I think about... I work around black immigrants, and talking about anti-blackness in both immigrant communities, Latinx communities, and the immigrant system in this country, part of that was really rooted in my work when I was in community college and organizing for the dream act at the state level back in Maryland. There was a crew of folks, young African American high school students at the time who...
In the middle of this campaign, I went to share my story with them. I will never forget that I felt a little bit inadequate. Here I am showing up to this failing Baltimore city high school, literally falling apart, asking them for their help on my journey to education when quite frankly, I had not showed up to for young black people in the city of Baltimore prior to that moment. And I pushed through, I shared my story, and what happened then really changed my life. Those young African American kids in Baltimore city took on the dream act as their own campaign. They were knocking on doors, holding press conferences, just really went out of their ways to really support this work. And on election day, because we were working on a ballot referenda, I asked one of the leaders in particular, I said, "Thank you for all of your work, but how come you took it to this level?"
And what she said to me, I think, really continues to shape my analysis. She said that she knew what it was like to be on the other side of a system that did not recognize her worth, and she wanted to fight injustice wherever she saw it. So at 16 year old, [inaudible 00:11:13] is her name. She taught me about solidarity, intersectionality, all of these fancy terms we talked about. The most simplest of terms, she just lived it. So from that moment on, I was like, "Cool, I have not shown up in the past, but I am here now. We got all my people." So that was back in 2011, 2012. To fast forward to 2015, when Freddie Gray was murdered by the Baltimore police department and all of us were taking to the streets protesting the injustice, I remember being really disappointed that I didn't feel like my fellow non-black Latinx community, my fellow immigrant rights communities just had not shown up in a meaningful way for black people, for those very same young black people in the city of Baltimore.
So I know that that was a moment for me of heartbreak, anger, disappointment. That's not to say that there weren't, or the organizations who had done similar work or had done work around it, but it hadn't been done the way that I thought was really needed. I had to step up, right? And I was fortunate to be one of a crew of folks who got to co-found, and I got to be the executive director of the UndocuBlack Network, which is an organization that fights at the intersection of racial justice, immigrant justice of criminal justice, really fighting for a freer world, right?
And that has been quite the journey to go from being angry about something that I saw, but then to taking the next step. So there are folks who are out there, especially young people, who are continuously disappointed in our movement leaders, political leaders, business leaders, and how the systems are failing our people. This is your moment. What I say to them is that if you think that it needs to be done in a different way, go do it. Go do it, go build the support, go build the platform, be about building this movement so that we can get closer to justice.
Chuck Rocha:
I really appreciate you sharing that story. Speaking of DACA, where were you at in your life when DACA executive actually came down?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
Another one of the through lines of my life has been my relationship with the American dream. And as an immigrant, as a newcomer to this country, now a part of it, I think we as a country do a really good job of packaging and selling this American dream. This is the land of opportunity. This is the land of the brave and the free. This is the land where if you work hard, everything is accessible to you. And being a 13 year old, I was like, "Oh cool, great. Happy that that's where I'm at. I'm just going to work hard and everything will be great." And as you can imagine by my tone, I think the past 10 to 15 years, in particular, have been years of heartbreak, of realizing the ways in which that dream is not a reality for so many people that I care about, including for my family and myself.
But I think when I... I bring this up in this context, because thinking about college, it was the thing that I was really excited about. Oh, I just have to get good grades. I'm going to be able to go to college. And I was able to gain admission to multiple schools that I really wanted to go to. And at the end of the day, because I am the child of a construction worker and a babysitter, I could not afford to go to any of the four year schools. And I'm just deeply, deeply grateful for my community college that they saw the talent and the potential in me and still opened their doors to me to be able to attend. So when I go back to the DACA executive order, I was a student at Montgomery College. And at that point, I had already started fighting for immigrant justice, we had won the dream act.
And I think, one, deeply grateful for all the activists who led the fight at the federal level to make DACA a reality. I think that for me, I remember the time when I heard on the radio that it was going to happen. We had been talking about the potential for a while, but once you've had your heart broken by this country, you know not to get too excited. So part of me was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe. And what we kept hearing from the White House is that they were like, "No, it's not possible. No, it's not possible." But I remember I was driving on my way to I think an internship meeting and I was driving on the 495, which is the beltway back in the DC area. And I just remember hearing it and freezing. I am driving at 55 per hour, probably 65.
Speaker 4:
[Inaudible 00:15:36] new action my administration, amend our nation's immigration policy to make it more fair, more efficient, more fair, and more just, specifically for certain young people sometimes called dreamers.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
And just hearing it and being like, "Is this real?" and all of the feelings that come with it. The joy of, "Oh, things are going to change for me," And also look at all of the carve outs that come with any kind of program that provides protection for folks and thinking about like, "Oh, the friends that I know that were not qualified." So it's always part of the process, but that's really where I was and that's what I was feeling at the time.
Chuck Rocha:
Before we take a deeper dive into your organizing work, Jonathan, I want to take a point of personal privilege. I want to ask you about something that I really enjoyed learning about you. So one of the benefits of DACA was that you got to study abroad in the Galapagos Island. As a poor kid growing up in east Texas, I loved watching the animal shows, National Geographic, seeing all those lizards and big sea creatures on my TV. So the Galapagos Islands has always been high on the places that I wanted to visit. What was it like leaving the US for the very first time?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
Okay. So I love you're... I never get asked about this. I love that you're asking about this. Before I answer, I'm going to give you a little bit more context. So went to my community college for two years, we won the dream act, but because opponents put it on a ballot referenda, it did not go into law. So when it was time for me to transfer for my community college, Montgomery College, it was actually more affordable to go to a private school than to take a bus to the nearest public school, because that's the state we lived in, the country we lived in at the time. So I went to Goucher, and Goucher's requirements is that every student must go abroad before graduating. So everyone had to go. And I was like, "No, we're not." So to me, once DACA came into place and I saw friends going abroad, I was like, I think this might be my only opportunity to go abroad.
So I got to go to the gala Galapagos Island as part of this environmental sustainability program at Goucher. And when I think about just that timeline, so much disbelief comes to... My body is full of disbelief of like, I did that. I remember being really scared leaving and coming back. I remember sort of having an organizing plan in place just in case. So you get a work permit with your DACA, social security card. And then to be able to travel abroad under the DACA program, you have to apply for what's called advanced parole. So basically you tell the US government, "Hey, I want to go abroad for these particular reasons." You can only go abroad for educational, humanitarian, and I think maybe education, employment, and humanitarian reasons.
So I went for educational reasons. Basically, you say to the US government, "I want to travel and come back on these dates." And then the paper that they gave you, it says, essentially allowed entrance back, but it's not guaranteed. That could change at any point, right? So it was a risk, it was not guaranteed that they were going to let me in. But for me, I was like, I'm going to do it and I'm going to be organized. So I had a plan of contacting my member of Congress saying, "Hey, I'm going to be out of the country," wanting to make sure that they had all my documentation, that I had to fill out the appropriate forms should I need them to make a call if they did not want to let me in.
And so I think the kind of planning you have to do as an undocumented person, now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, most 20, 21 year olds are not thinking about all these. So I think that was one aspect of it. I think the second is to think about what it was like to go abroad, being undocumented, with a crew of folks... Yeah, I was the only undocumented kid on that trip. So I think it was like 10 to 15 people from my class that got to go on this trip with two professors. And yeah, it was like, in so many ways I had to explain to everyone like, "Hey, I have DACA. This is what it means. I'm taking a risk here." And I still vividly remember walking back on the way back.
So we had a layover in Panama. I wanted to get out and peak, but I was like, they're not going to let me back in. Let me just stay on board. And had an incredible three weeks in Ecuador. I am obsessed with that country, cannot wait to go back and hang out with people. But on the way back, I clearly remember needing to get through customs, literally 20 year old me holding hands with my two professors. They're like, "We're going to protect you." They were not. They can't protect me from immigration, but I think it speaks to the real love and bond that I got to build with folks.
Chuck Rocha:
I think that that's great. And I think that the story is powerful, the way that you let folks know about how the uncertainties happens. And when you talk about being organized and being this 20 year old kid, in your words, not my words, that you're already figuring out how to get things done. But let's jump ahead to 2016. You get back from Ecuador, you become the founding director of UndocuBlack Network, UBN. Talk to me about UBN, what UBN does, but also why an organization specifically focus on black undocumented people and why it was so needed then now more than ever.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
UndocuBlack will always be one of my first loves. And I think UndocuBlack, for me, was the answer to the deep injustice that I saw, being really disappointed at the anti-blackness in the immigrant rights movement, both in how we organized, also in terms of the policy we fought for and how we neglected the needs of black immigrants. I personally feel so indebted to African Americans and the broader black power movement for tracing the way for someone like me to be able to be an activist, to do the work that I get to do today. And I felt really strongly then, hasn't changed that much, but I think it's getting a little bit better, we just don't show... The immigrant track movement doesn't show up as much as we should for black folks.
I think that's changed somewhat because of the work that a lot of orgs have done. I just love black people so much that I want us all to understand and fight for racial justice, fight for black liberation with every might of our being. So to me, UndocuBlack was my way of creating another pathway for that to be possible. So thinking about Freddie Gray being the activating moment, to have seen how we acted, how we showed up then to now see how our broader movement and our people showed up in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd. There was a really tangible difference, right? And to me, it just really means that part of our work is done, trying to make sure that people are drawing those connections and are not forgetting about the people at the margins. But yes, that's part of what we wanted to do at an UndocuBlack. I stepped down as a director back in 2019, and we now have Patrice Lauren, who's leading the organization, doing an incredible job.
Speaker 5:
We are constantly under surveillance, especially those of us who are black and Muslim. Harmful policies target our people and criminalize our identities.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
But to me, to think about how they're now taking it on their own pathway and their own vision, shaping it to to their own plans and their own strategy. To me, it's really beautiful, because the way that I think about leadership is that it's not just about one person. It is about a group of people and it is cyclical and people take turns, right? So I'm really glad to be able to see them flourishing.
Chuck Rocha:
So you and I both were on the campaign trail in 2020, and a lot of people saw your leadership on full display when you served as the director of Latinx outreach for Senator Elizabeth Warren. I remember watching you on TV, literally sitting on my couch, clapping, thinking now these are the kind of voices I need to see more of elevated on my TV set. What were some of the lessons from your time at UndocuBlack that carried over to this new role?
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
So at the end of my time at UndocuBlack, I was, if I'm honest, really burnt out. I call UndocuBlack my first love because I really gave it all I had, which in so many ways meant that I put it above my personal, my physical, mental, emotional wellbeing. I gave that org everything in me. And I'm really proud and glad that I did. And at the end I was like, I don't have anything else left. And I planned to take a break, but I think, for me, hearing Senator Warrens vision of this country just really spoke to me. So when this job came up and this opportunity came up, I don't think I had realized then, but yeah, I was not the traditional choice for that job, right? Being black, being queer, being non-binary and trans. It was a real honor to be able to play that role.
And what I definitely carried from UndocuBlack was this perspective on folks who are at the margins, thinking about every time we had a policy conversation, thinking about how do we make sure that our folks who most impacted are shaping what the policy looks and we end up having something that addresses people's need, I think, is something particularly that I brought from UndocuBlack. I think the second thing is really thinking about governing and what it means for a movement to have governing power over this country and the institutions. And when I went to the campaign, I was like, oh, I'm here to put forth the demands of our movement in this political campaign, in this presidential stage, and had a really hard time, I'll be honest. And really, I think the experience was really helpful for me to right size and sharpen my understanding of power in this country and particularly around resources, around budgets and money and investments that it takes to actually govern, right?
For example, one of the things that the Senator really ran on was the wealth tax. And prior to that campaign, I'm like, yeah, tax are rich. Cool, we should do that. But I think something that I really appreciated that the Senator did was really building a solid plan and tying it to direct things that I cared about. So tying it to education, tying it to childcare, and all of the ways that had a racial justice lens.
And then to see the swift backlash from millionaires crying on television because someone wanted to tax them to pay for basic public infrastructure I think just really opened my eyes to the broader ties to economic justice and how all of these fights are connected. And I think that really carries to today, of how I want us as progressives, us as people who believe in freedom and justice, to be able to govern over this country. And that's not going to happen until we have a redistribution of wealth and until we have an actual strong public infrastructure that is able to take care of people's basic needs. So I think that's really what I've been able to carry, bring forth from that experience.
Chuck Rocha:
I want you to know that I'm a looked at a lot of times as the old Latino guard. And I am, but with the awareness of what the young people in my life have taught me, but there's one thing that I've known beyond a shadow of a doubt, which I think makes your experience so important for the movement with Elizabeth Warren, is that you, and it's good for an old gray beard like me to have folks like you in those positions. Not just to be seen, it's easy to be seen as that director, but now you have an understanding of where all the white power base of America really is in the power of policy in campaigns.
And my terms are, and what you delivered for our community, was this representation in the room. You didn't win every battle. None of us do, but you were there, at the level you were at, to say, "This is what we would like to see and let's figure out how to get there." I just find that we would have more policy victories, more political victories, if there's more black, brown, queer, trans, non-binary, all of the above diversity at a big level that is more in the inclusion area of where the voices are there, because I think the policy would be different.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
I really struggle with the politics of representation, if I'm honest, mostly because I have had roles where it was just for the photo op. It was just like, let's have this person on this task force so that we can say we got a black or whatever identity that is helpful for people. And what I really have a strong desire to only do from now on is to be able... Whenever I step in a room, I always want to make sure that I have structural power, budgetary power, that I have hiring and firing power. Those are the places that I... And I think you do an excellent job really laying this out for people, to think about if you don't have the right folks with these types of power, then actually, it is shallow, right?
And I think for me, with my time of the campaign, for a good chunk of my time, I was the highest ranking Latinx person, and and that was great in some ways, but also it just was insufficient, right? And I think thinking about how we worked and how we push, how we worked with different people in and out of the campaign to really transform it, at the end, I'm proud of the work that we did. And also I'm like, this could have been different. This could have been different. And I think about that I'm working in philanthropy, actually having the power to direct investments, I'm like, this is actually where the power is. And I want folks to be really clear about being to shallow representation politics with actual structural power.
Chuck Rocha:
So after the campaign, you joined the Marguerite Casey Foundation where you're currently the vice president of programs, which is a whole other beast. In an interview earlier this year with Nation Swell, you were quoted as saying, stay with me, "Philanthropies and foundations spend the bulk of their time focused on due diligence, but what the fuck is a safe investment in a crumbling system, within a crumbling global economy."
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
So as a former executive director of a nonprofit, I feel like there was a whole facade that was presented to me about foundations, that it was really strategic and thoughtful and blah, blah, blah, and there were all these restraints. And then I get to this foundation, the Marguerite Casey Foundation, and really lucky to be a part of the executive team, under the leadership of our president, Dr. Carmen Rojas, and realized that most of these requirements, most of these bureaucracy that foundations impose on nonprofits are made up, are created to appease some foundation staff ego about their need for self importance and not actually real constraints, right? So what we've done at the Marguerite Casey Foundation, we are known to lead by example, we eliminated grant reports, we made the application simpler, we cut it by half, we made our grant amounts transparent.
You can tell... There's a whole chart that depending on how much revenue you've had, you can tell what size grant you'll likely get if you are the type of organization that we fund. So we're trying to be more transparent about what our strategy is so that people don't have to demystify it, but a lot of time is spent on this question of due diligence. And what due diligence means more often than not is foundations not wanting to invest in black, indigenous, communities of color, but more importantly, and this definitely comes even more into play when it comes to black, indigenous, communities of color led organizations that are progressive, that our abolitionists, that have a political analysis. Those are the folks that people question the most. So I'm like, that's some BS and we're not about it.
Funders have... Personally, I don't believe that philanthropies should exist. I believe that the existence of the whole philanthropic sector is the result inequitable tax policies that have allowed people to hoard wealth, right? So while we still have it, we should use all of these resources to fund community organizers across the country, especially at the local level that are working to reshape and build our economy and our democracy to their liking, to the image and likeness, that are hoping and working to abolish our carceral system. I think that's really where the money should go. And by and large, the money is not going to those places. So I'm hoping to use this work, this post that I have at the Marguerite Casey Foundation, the team that we're getting to build and the work that we get to do to move us in that direction.
Chuck Rocha:
Jonathan, I think that it's important that people know that you're being so intentional. I think that it's important for folks to know that this is not easy when you start talking about money and power and structure. To question anything is hard. So know that I know that, and I know that the listeners know that, and we appreciate what you're doing. I want to end with this, that you know, of course, that the podcast is called Nuestro, and it's called Nuestro for a reason. I want it to be a show where people listen and learn about our community. And in my mind, our community is nuestro, ours, it's ours, but all of us look at ours in a different way. So I want to know what nuestro means to you and your comunidad.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
To me, it means solidarity. To me, when I think about our community and our people, the biggest longing that I have for us is that we reject the false choice that white supremacy offers us, that we can move ahead, that we can advance personally, if we conform to the systems of power, if we are enabling participants of anti-blackness, if we are enabling participants of transphobia, homophobia, and all of the other phobias, right? So to me, when I think about my people, my community, my chosen family, those are the people that are choosing solidarity over white supremacy, that are choosing to sort of fight for each other, that are choosing to honor gifts, our communities, treasure, history, and are choosing to reimagine who we get to be, and are choosing to believe that another world is possible.
Chuck Rocha:
Well, I appreciate it so much. It means something to me personally, and I know your time is valuable. So thank you for joining us on Nuestro Podcast.
Jonathan Jayes-Green:
Thanks for having me.
Chuck Rocha:
To learn more about Jonathan, check out our show notes. Nuestro is a production of Solidarity Strategies. Gabrielle Horton is our executive producer, Cynthia Pimentel is our lead producer, and Kevin Lu is our sound engineer. Our theme music is composed by Joel Rodriguez. If you want to hear more episodes like this, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. There's going to be a new episode every week. And most important, don't forget to follow me at Chuck Rocha on the Twitters. Adios, and until next week.